420/44 DB Owners Club

Does anybody have info on a pre-made kit of the sea dek material for my 2005 420 sedan bridge? I don't really want to do the templating myself and I was hoping someone had a connection that sells this in a pre-cut kit for my particular sea ray. I got a custom quote and it was $10,000 for the flybridge, stairs, cockpit and swim platform (ouch)!!
JoAna, you might check at Plasdeck (https://www.plasdeck.com/research-information/boats-on-file) where you can order (for a small fee of course) the template for a 44DB and adjust to your preference.

Also, Carpe Diem did a very nice upgrade to his boat (http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/eva-foam-decking.83950/page-9) (post 163 is the results) and may be able to provide some details regarding the template.

The EVA thread above has some good/bad about the EVA foam - FYI.
 
Great boat great engine package. If your going to jump in to a boat of this caliber, although MX is a factor, whether it’s diesel or gas isn’t a huge difference. Your not going to want a boat that big with gas engines. If your handy and able, a lot of the service and preventative MX can be done yourself.
I’ve put 300 hrs on mine in four years doing the basic services and spend around 500 a year doing so. I’ve yet to have to have any major repairs done on the engines and I’m at 15 years and 400 hours total.
Jump in and enjoy!
Carpe Diem
Thank you Carpe and Hipo. A few followup questions. The boat I am considering is freshwater, any concerns about the aftercoolers and exchangers where no salt has been involved? Any concerns about the way you run a diesel boat versus gas? I have read that diesel engines do not like to run at slower speeds preferring 3/4 throttle to prevent carbon build up in the cylinders. I have also read that starting and stopping is harder on diesels than gas. My typical run would be 25 miles, but most likely at reduced speed due to wake concerns on an inland water way. Some of the service reports on this boat appear to show repeated problems with the Onan generator eating impellers. Has anyone experienced that as a problem? Appreciate all feedback, don't want to make a bad decision on an expensive boat!
Rob
 
Robf - I have an Onan 21.5kw genny and the impellers last 600 hrs (3 oil changes) - they are still in good shape when I change them. Maintenance plan says change every 500 hours...
 
Looking at a 2006 44 Sedan Bridge with about 800 hours on Cummins Diesels. I would be interested on any thoughts all of you may have on this boat, year, and engines. This is the first diesel boat I have considered and I am a little apprehensive about going to diesels regarding maintenance costs, etc. Appreciate any feedback.
Rob

Rob,

I did a bare boat charter on a 44 DB a few years ago that had gas engines.

Not nearly as much torque. Spinning smaller wheels, close quarter maneuvering alone would be my reason for going diesel.

All kinds of discussion around diesels vs gas on here, not going to revisit what is in other threads.

For this size boat, I would want diesels. Just my opinion.

800 hours means it is broken in. Still a lot of life.

if you proceed forward with the boat, definitely have a certified Cummins Tech do a separate from the hull survey - money very well spent.

That is the key with Diesels. It is not that total cost is greater, its that you have to pay attention and do service when specified. I am going to guess, most of the high $ horror stories are from situations where service was ignored.
 
Thank you Carpe and Hipo. A few followup questions. The boat I am considering is freshwater, any concerns about the aftercoolers and exchangers where no salt has been involved? Any concerns about the way you run a diesel boat versus gas? I have read that diesel engines do not like to run at slower speeds preferring 3/4 throttle to prevent carbon build up in the cylinders. I have also read that starting and stopping is harder on diesels than gas. My typical run would be 25 miles, but most likely at reduced speed due to wake concerns on an inland water way. Some of the service reports on this boat appear to show repeated problems with the Onan generator eating impellers. Has anyone experienced that as a problem? Appreciate all feedback, don't want to make a bad decision on an expensive boat!
Rob

I would ultimately defer to @fwebster, my opinion, the problem with diesels is when they are started, then shut down without establishing a warmed up temp. I have always heard the blow out the carbon concept was addressed by periodically bringing them up to full throttle occasionally for a couple of minutes.

Kinda perplexed by this in a way. Lots of years of experience with diesels on the farm with tractors and Semi Tractors. Other that my cousin and I winding up engines (read over revving) in the semi's - most of them never had the carbon blown out.

25 mile trip I wouldn't worry about. Your up to operating temps. Push them up open occasionally. At the end of the days - over mid 30's in length, I am a diesel fan.
 
JoAna,If you want to do Plastidek they have a template that was made from my 06 44DB and it fit my friend's 04 420. Fly bridge, cockpit, stairs and heads cost me $4200 and was pretty easy to install and came out great!
 
JoAna, you might check at Plasdeck (https://www.plasdeck.com/research-information/boats-on-file) where you can order (for a small fee of course) the template for a 44DB and adjust to your preference.

Also, Carpe Diem did a very nice upgrade to his boat (http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/eva-foam-decking.83950/page-9) (post 163 is the results) and may be able to provide some details regarding the template.

The EVA thread above has some good/bad about the EVA foam - FYI.
thanks for the info and links. - they were very helpful and Carpe diems boat is pretty nice so much so that I've decided to include flooring in both heads.
 
thanks for the info and links. - they were very helpful and Carpe diems boat is pretty nice so much so that I've decided to include flooring in both heads.
Agree, I too like how the flooring looks in Carpe's boat. It is on our list for this winter's boat show! I am pretty confident that we will go with Plasdek as I think it has a longer life expectancy than the EVA foam products and I really only want to do this once! Will focus on the cockpit and stairs first - not sure about the swim platform yet. For the heads, I made a custom mat out of mahogany
upload_2019-10-22_7-47-32.jpg


Look forward to seeing your upgrade when done.
 
Thank you Carpe and Hipo. A few followup questions. The boat I am considering is freshwater, any concerns about the aftercoolers and exchangers where no salt has been involved? Any concerns about the way you run a diesel boat versus gas? I have read that diesel engines do not like to run at slower speeds preferring 3/4 throttle to prevent carbon build up in the cylinders. I have also read that starting and stopping is harder on diesels than gas. My typical run would be 25 miles, but most likely at reduced speed due to wake concerns on an inland water way. Some of the service reports on this boat appear to show repeated problems with the Onan generator eating impellers. Has anyone experienced that as a problem? Appreciate all feedback, don't want to make a bad decision on an expensive boat!
Rob
Rob, we purchased our 2004 420DB fresh water boat a year ago and diesels are new to me as well. I had the Cummins tech poke one of those remote inspection cameras into each heat exchanger during the survey to check the condition. In my case, it looked brand new! Was a quick easy way to assess the condition. As for the aftercoolers - those I plan to take off and service this winter … I'm assuming they will look like the heat exchangers and don't anticipate any major problems (I probably just jinked myself! :)). I don't think mine have ever been serviced.

As for the speed, I too read the comments that diesels like the higher loading and had the same concern/question as you - we enjoy the 7-8knt range. I came across a response to this question on the Seaboard Marine (www.sbmar.com) and Tony's response was to make sure it was propped correctly (not overloading) and go enjoy! no worries on the lighter load (1100 rpm is about 42% of max rpm, so without the load sensors, this is a good approximation). I do run it up on plane semi-regularly to 'blow it out'.

Haven't had the boat long enough to comment on the Onan impellers … no problems thus far.

Strongly agree with the other comments/guidance to have a Cummins tech to the engine survey. Gave me the confidence to close the deal, although I also recognize that I have some maintenance work to catch up on.

Pre-purchase boat survey's are much different in Canada vs the US … my understanding is the US is much more comprehensive. Couple things got missed during ours - heat on the forward A/C doesn't work and the autopilot was disconnected. Make sure you (or the surveyor) check everything is working.

Over the top happy with the boat and the engines! good luck.
 
JoAna,If you want to do Plastidek they have a template that was made from my 06 44DB and it fit my friend's 04 420. Fly bridge, cockpit, stairs and heads cost me $4200 and was pretty easy to install and came out great!

That's wild. I'm looking at a receipt from the previous owner and he paid 20k for Nuteak for the cockpit, swim platform and stairs to the bridge for my 420. Seems outrageous.
 
Agree, I too like how the flooring looks in Carpe's boat. It is on our list for this winter's boat show! I am pretty confident that we will go with Plasdek as I think it has a longer life expectancy than the EVA foam products and I really only want to do this once! Will focus on the cockpit and stairs first - not sure about the swim platform yet. For the heads, I made a custom mat out of mahogany
View attachment 76120

Look forward to seeing your upgrade when done.


I like the wood for inside the showers (would you make a couple on the side)??
 
That's wild. I'm looking at a receipt from the previous owner and he paid 20k for Nuteak for the cockpit, swim platform and stairs to the bridge for my 420. Seems outrageous.
The pros do charge a lot of money for installation. It does take time to make a careful template but glueing down the floor is pretty simple. I have heard quotes of $80 per square foot installed. Plasdek charges $40 a foot for the finished product ready to ship. I don’t see paying $40/foot for installation. It took two of us a long morning to do the job, them’s good wages!
Carpe Diem
 
Rob, we purchased our 2004 420DB fresh water boat a year ago and diesels are new to me as well. I had the Cummins tech poke one of those remote inspection cameras into each heat exchanger during the survey to check the condition. In my case, it looked brand new! Was a quick easy way to assess the condition. As for the aftercoolers - those I plan to take off and service this winter … I'm assuming they will look like the heat exchangers and don't anticipate any major problems (I probably just jinked myself! :)). I don't think mine have ever been serviced.

As for the speed, I too read the comments that diesels like the higher loading and had the same concern/question as you - we enjoy the 7-8knt range. I came across a response to this question on the Seaboard Marine (www.sbmar.com) and Tony's response was to make sure it was propped correctly (not overloading) and go enjoy! no worries on the lighter load (1100 rpm is about 42% of max rpm, so without the load sensors, this is a good approximation). I do run it up on plane semi-regularly to 'blow it out'.

Haven't had the boat long enough to comment on the Onan impellers … no problems thus far.

Strongly agree with the other comments/guidance to have a Cummins tech to the engine survey. Gave me the confidence to close the deal, although I also recognize that I have some maintenance work to catch up on.

Pre-purchase boat survey's are much different in Canada vs the US … my understanding is the US is much more comprehensive. Couple things got missed during ours - heat on the forward A/C doesn't work and the autopilot was disconnected. Make sure you (or the surveyor) check everything is working.

Over the top happy with the boat and the engines! good luck.
Tomco, thank you so much for the information. Very helpful and encouraging, especially regarding the running speed. I will definitely include a Cummins tech on a survey if I get to that point. A surveyor I have used in the past is very thorough, but don't know his competence level on diesels. Continued good luck on the 420!
Rob
 
Tomco, thank you so much for the information. Very helpful and encouraging, especially regarding the running speed. I will definitely include a Cummins tech on a survey if I get to that point. A surveyor I have used in the past is very thorough, but don't know his competence level on diesels. Continued good luck on the 420!
Rob

Cummins techs can hook up a computer and tell you every alarm that has ever been, how much time was spent running at various rpms, etc. They were great. They were late to my sea trial so Saunders Yachtworks sent two of them. They pulled the all of the fluid samples, sent them off, and then sent me and called me with the results. They did not come cheap, but money well spent. Changed the Onan impeller after one year in SW and one year in FW and it looked new. Installed the new one and kept the old for a spare.

We have had the boat going on our 3rd year and the only thing that has “broken” is the galley refrigerator and the turntable motor on the microwave. I do all of my maintenance and never had an issue. She is a fine machine.

Bennett
 
Cummins techs can hook up a computer and tell you every alarm that has ever been, how much time was spent running at various rpms, etc. They were great. They were late to my sea trial so Saunders Yachtworks sent two of them. They pulled the all of the fluid samples, sent them off, and then sent me and called me with the results. They did not come cheap, but money well spent. Changed the Onan impeller after one year in SW and one year in FW and it looked new. Installed the new one and kept the old for a spare.

We have had the boat going on our 3rd year and the only thing that has “broken” is the galley refrigerator and the turntable motor on the microwave. I do all of my maintenance and never had an issue. She is a fine machine.

Bennett
Bennett, thanks so much. Funny your galley fridge went out as they just replaced the galley fridge in this one last year. Must have had issues with those models! I really appreciate all the input, getting closer to making that offer!
Rob
 
I would ultimately defer to @fwebster, my opinion, the problem with diesels is when they are started, then shut down without establishing a warmed up temp. I have always heard the blow out the carbon concept was addressed by periodically bringing them up to full throttle occasionally for a couple of minutes.

Kinda perplexed by this in a way. Lots of years of experience with diesels on the farm with tractors and Semi Tractors. Other that my cousin and I winding up engines (read over revving) in the semi's - most of them never had the carbon blown out.

25 mile trip I wouldn't worry about. Your up to operating temps. Push them up open occasionally. At the end of the days - over mid 30's in length, I am a diesel fan.
Appreciate the input! That really helps! I am definitely getting closer!
Rob
 
Rob,

I did a bare boat charter on a 44 DB a few years ago that had gas engines.

Not nearly as much torque. Spinning smaller wheels, close quarter maneuvering alone would be my reason for going diesel.

All kinds of discussion around diesels vs gas on here, not going to revisit what is in other threads.

For this size boat, I would want diesels. Just my opinion.

800 hours means it is broken in. Still a lot of life.

if you proceed forward with the boat, definitely have a certified Cummins Tech do a separate from the hull survey - money very well spent.

That is the key with Diesels. It is not that total cost is greater, its that you have to pay attention and do service when specified. I am going to guess, most of the high $ horror stories are from situations where service was ignored.
Thanks again, all the experience is very helpful!
Rob
 
Robf - I have an Onan 21.5kw genny and the impellers last 600 hrs (3 oil changes) - they are still in good shape when I change them. Maintenance plan says change every 500 hours...
Thanks so much. Not sure why the constant changing of impellers in this case. May have to look into that. Rob
 
Rob, we purchased our 2004 420DB fresh water boat a year ago and diesels are new to me as well. I had the Cummins tech poke one of those remote inspection cameras into each heat exchanger during the survey to check the condition. In my case, it looked brand new! Was a quick easy way to assess the condition. As for the aftercoolers - those I plan to take off and service this winter … I'm assuming they will look like the heat exchangers and don't anticipate any major problems (I probably just jinked myself! :)). I don't think mine have ever been serviced.

As for the speed, I too read the comments that diesels like the higher loading and had the same concern/question as you - we enjoy the 7-8knt range. I came across a response to this question on the Seaboard Marine (www.sbmar.com) and Tony's response was to make sure it was propped correctly (not overloading) and go enjoy! no worries on the lighter load (1100 rpm is about 42% of max rpm, so without the load sensors, this is a good approximation). I do run it up on plane semi-regularly to 'blow it out'.

Haven't had the boat long enough to comment on the Onan impellers … no problems thus far.

Strongly agree with the other comments/guidance to have a Cummins tech to the engine survey. Gave me the confidence to close the deal, although I also recognize that I have some maintenance work to catch up on.

Pre-purchase boat survey's are much different in Canada vs the US … my understanding is the US is much more comprehensive. Couple things got missed during ours - heat on the forward A/C doesn't work and the autopilot was disconnected. Make sure you (or the surveyor) check everything is working.

Over the top happy with the boat and the engines! good luck.
Follow up question, Tomco, can you tell me if the hydraulic swim platform degraded performance or not? What size tender do you put on the platform? I am considering either a platform or Freedom lift to haul a 500 RIB.
Rob
 
I like the wood for inside the showers (would you make a couple on the side)??
+1 on the wood grate in the shower.
 

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