420 DA Thread

I just had the one in my Salon replaced. When I go to the boat in a few days I will post the model number. It is one of the Turbo units (I guess it blows more air). It seems to do a good job. It blows nice and cold. When you replace it it is pretty easy. I didn't do it myself but it seemed easy enough. Some will tell you you have to take the stairs out or some other massive job to get it in there but you do not. I can verify the model I got will slide through the hole where the tray is. Again I will let you know what my model number is and for sure it fits with a little twisting somehow.

Thanks - This is very much appreciated.


With that being said after it is turned on it's side like that you don't want to turn it on for 12 or 24 hours or something like that until all the cool juice has settled to avoid damaging the compressor.

Another note. On my model there is an option to get it with an insulated compressor to make it quieter. When I got mine I didn't know this was an option but reading the manual later I saw it was. For the Salon AC I would get this option because in the aft cabin where the intake is it's pretty noticeable when the compressor kicks on and off for anyone sleeping back there. Thanks - Noted.. For the one in the forward stateroom I wouldn't bother as it's buried so deep you can't here anything.

Now I am about to replace the one in my forward stateroom sometime this winter. I have had it all tuned up and cleaned and it blows about 55-58 which is not good enough. I am not sure if you guys realize this but you forward AC not only services the forward stateroom, the head, and the shower it also services the forward vent in the salon. So those two big vents on the port side of the boat, one forward on the couch, and one aft. The forward one is actually hooked up to the stateroom AC which surprised me. I just found this out a few weeks ago. I thought I had an issue with the Salon AC and went searching. Kinda surprised me. So when I replace the stateroom AC it will take a load off that Salon one as it will be blowing much colder air into the salon.

Here is a question I have. My AC vent in the shower blows a lot of air. The stateroom vent is moving a good amount of air as is the other vent in the front of the salon serviced by this blower. But the vent in my forward head barely blows any air. I pulled the vent out and it's clear. There is just a big plenum behind it with no obstructions in sight just hardly any airflow. Has anyone else seen this an been able to rectify it? How is you guys airflow in the forward head? Poor like yours....

Thanks for the info 3four0h. I look forward to seeing what unit Model you got.
 
One more thing I forgot to mention. The old AC units use a telephone style chord between the unit and the controller on the wall. So I had get a new controller (pretty sure it came with it) and they had to run the new CAT 5 cable to it. No big deal just want to let you guys know that also.

Be careful pulling the new cable through as we damaged the first one and we had it really really secure and protected or so I thought! So be easy with it.

I attached the manual for the new controller because there wasn't one in the box and I had to get the dealer to send me this. Not sure if the unit comes with this (probably does) but it is really basic but has all the functions I need. Like AC, heat, humidity mode, and ability to change fan to continuous or automatic. That's all I need. But if you go on Dometic's website they have all kind of fancy controllers with bluetooth or wifi and the ability to turn it on or off over your phone I think. This one looks basic but I think it has all the functionality of the SMX II. Just in a cleaner simpler look.

I'll get the model up here of the AC on Tuesday night for you.
 

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I just had the one in my Salon replaced. When I go to the boat in a few days I will post the model number. It is one of the Turbo units (I guess it blows more air). It seems to do a good job. It blows nice and cold. When you replace it it is pretty easy. I didn't do it myself but it seemed easy enough. Some will tell you you have to take the stairs out or some other massive job to get it in there but you do not. I can verify the model I got will slide through the hole where the tray is. Again I will let you know what my model number is and for sure it fits with a little twisting somehow.

With that being said after it is turned on it's side like that you don't want to turn it on for 12 or 24 hours or something like that until all the cool juice has settled to avoid damaging the compressor.

Another note. On my model there is an option to get it with an insulated compressor to make it quieter. When I got mine I didn't know this was an option but reading the manual later I saw it was. For the Salon AC I would get this option because in the aft cabin where the intake is it's pretty noticeable when the compressor kicks on and off for anyone sleeping back there. For the one in the forward stateroom I wouldn't bother as it's buried so deep you can't hear anything.

Now I am about to replace the one in my forward stateroom sometime this winter. I have had it all tuned up and cleaned and it blows about 55-58 which is not good enough. I am not sure if you guys realize this but you forward AC not only services the forward stateroom, the head, and the shower it also services the forward vent in the salon. So those two big vents on the port side of the boat, one forward on the couch, and one aft. The forward one is actually hooked up to the stateroom AC which surprised me. So when I replace the stateroom AC it will take a load off that Salon one as it will be blowing much colder air into the salon.

Here is a question I have. My AC vent in the shower blows a lot of air. The stateroom vent is moving a good amount of air as is the other vent in the front of the salon serviced by this blower. But the vent in my forward head barely blows any air. I pulled the vent out and it's clear. There is just a big plenum behind it with no obstructions in sight just hardly any airflow. Has anyone else seen this an been able to rectify it? How is you guys airflow in the forward head?


There are no dampers installed so the air simply goes path of least resistance. So u need to either install a damper or obstruct the duct which has more air. On the port side u have a vent at the V berth . then the head . then the main salon. id cut back the air to the shower and the vberth and see what u got . U can temp close the shower vent , and blk the v berth vent to see what u get. its a terrible setup.

Rob
 
With all the talk about dropping valves on an overloaded engine, I finally decided to get the monkey off my back. I am in the process of changing out the heads on my 480 CE's.

The boat was unknowingly overloaded when we first purchased it with 85 hours on it. Then I ran it a couple years overloaded, until I started to read up on Tony Athen's website. When I look back at some of my notes, I think I was running it pretty hard. I currently have about 657 hours on the boat.

I have already taken 2 inches of pitch out of the propellers. That gets me real close to the fuel burn numbers Tony recommends, depending on the load and condition of the bottom. So I feel I will be in good shape once the repairs are complete. Apparently there is a service bulletin out by Cummins that talks about a better designed head, which is what I am using.

The estimate is in the 11.5-12k range for both engines, and I felt it is far cheaper than the rebuild of a single engine with a dropped valve.

It hurts to see your favorite toy torn apart, but I feel this is better in the long run.

Matt

This is the thing with any 480CE boat. There’s a 420DB for sale in my marina. Nice boat. But they recently $19k worth of repairs for the “1000 hour” service, which included me after coolers, a few injectors and more. It DIDNT include heads. And as near as I can learn, it’s running stock OEM props. Meaning it’s over propped. Feels like a time bomb waiting to go off. Without negotiating the cost of repropping and new heads, how else do you buy a 480ce equipped boat?
 
Hey @Buyajet - A previous owner of my Sundancer installed the St Croix Model 350 Removable Davit system. They sell new for $1,583 but I have also seen them for sale on eBay. Here is the purchase link: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=2130068

View attachment 59898 This is how it looks on my swim platform with the Davits completely removed. They easily slide out after pulling the locking pin.
View attachment 59899 Here is how it looks with the davit arms installed but with no dinghy. We have found that having the davit arms actually allow us to steady ourselves as we board the dinghy to avoid falling into the water.
View attachment 59900 Here is the dinghy hoisted up. I am still working on adjusting the rear hooks so that the pulley is not right up against the engine. I prefer to lift the engine into the up position - especially on the long trip to Catalina - to minimize any contact with the water or wake. I also purchased ratchet straps from St Croix which I add on when I go underway with the dinghy on the back.
That looks like the perfect solution for me. Thank you so much!
 
This is the thing with any 480CE boat. There’s a 420DB for sale in my marina. Nice boat. But they recently $19k worth of repairs for the “1000 hour” service, which included me after coolers, a few injectors and more. It DIDNT include heads. And as near as I can learn, it’s running stock OEM props. Meaning it’s over propped. Feels like a time bomb waiting to go off. Without negotiating the cost of repropping and new heads, how else do you buy a 480ce equipped boat?

I completely agree, part of the reason I made the repairs now. So I can enjoy them over the next years. Plus I wouldn't have the heart to sell the boat to someone without disclosing the issue.

I still wonder who I should be angry with Cummins, sea ray, or myself. I guess there is blame to go everywhere. It's been quite an education.

Matt
 
Hey @Buyajet - A previous owner of my Sundancer installed the St Croix Model 350 Removable Davit system. They sell new for $1,583 but I have also seen them for sale on eBay. Here is the purchase link: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=2130068

View attachment 59898 This is how it looks on my swim platform with the Davits completely removed. They easily slide out after pulling the locking pin.
View attachment 59899 Here is how it looks with the davit arms installed but with no dinghy. We have found that having the davit arms actually allow us to steady ourselves as we board the dinghy to avoid falling into the water.
View attachment 59900 Here is the dinghy hoisted up. I am still working on adjusting the rear hooks so that the pulley is not right up against the engine. I prefer to lift the engine into the up position - especially on the long trip to Catalina - to minimize any contact with the water or wake. I also purchased ratchet straps from St Croix which I add on when I go underway with the dinghy on the back.
hynespa... Do you know or can describe what was done below the swim platform deck in terms of a backer plate?
I also see you have risers.. I would think the dingy would be far enough out of the water without them...would that be the case ?
Thanks
 
i have the st.croix as well.

although i love having the dink off the back of the boat (not crowding the swim platform)...there needs to be a LOT of bracing under the swim platform. The top is very thin.

i was really concerned the top of the swim platform was going to open like a can of sardines until in braced it with straps.

20180901_121841.jpg


i have risers to. they keep the dink just outside of the water while running.

coming off plane requires a gentler touch as well. the wake wave that comes behind gently kisses the underside of the dink. coming off plane quickly will definitely pick 'er up.

20180804_110632.jpg
 
hynespa... Do you know or can describe what was done below the swim platform deck in terms of a backer plate?
I also see you have risers.. I would think the dingy would be far enough out of the water without them...would that be the case ?
Thanks
Hi @Blueone - I believe there are backer plates - but they are not visible to me and since it was installed by a PO I don’t have insight into how they did it.

I agree with @importmonkey about the extra straps when under way @ plane or above. I bought the St Croix ratchet strap set to give it extra bracing while under way on a long trip to Catalina. Even the St Croix documentation say this is mandatory.

When I am using the boat on the evenings and weekends for “wine and cheese” cruises with friends or just to hang out with the family and kids, I generally remove the dinghy and davits from the boat and just tie up the dinghy on the other side of the dock so that the kids have easy access to tool around the marina harbor driving the dinghy ( as long as the dinghy HP is under a certain # kids are allowed to drive under CA law). I even came up with a dinghy safety quiz that the kids had to pass before for being allowed to drive the dinghy.

When I first bought the boat I only saw the brackets and thought that the previous owner had lost the davits. So I called Saint Croix to get a quote for replacement davits and they said that with my model boat I would definitely need the risers to keep the dinghy out of the water. However later I found where the previous owner had stashed the davits and found that the davits included the risers as well.
 
i have the st.croix as well.

although i love having the dink off the back of the boat (not crowding the swim platform)...there needs to be a LOT of bracing under the swim platform. The top is very thin.

i was really concerned the top of the swim platform was going to open like a can of sardines until in braced it with straps.

View attachment 59972

i have risers to. they keep the dink just outside of the water while running.

coming off plane requires a gentler touch as well. the wake wave that comes behind gently kisses the underside of the dink. coming off plane quickly will definitely pick 'er up.

View attachment 59974
@importmonkey - I really like your dinghy cover and the cover over your shore power cables. Can you share who made them and how much $$ they cost?
 
Found it. Thanks. Way back in left corner thru access panel. Why didn't they install it directly behind the access panel? The original owner never ran the tv cable or electric plug up the hole. I guess he never saw it.
Did you find the plug behind the helm seat and under the AC vent? I havnt been able to find one and trying to figure out how to run one for a tv there?
 
@importmonkey - I really like your dinghy cover and the cover over your shore power cables. Can you share who made them and how much $$ they cost?


Got the cover through Quality Marine Services - best price around.

1 x Inflatable Boats - Blunt Nose 12'6" x 70" - Carver Semi-Custom Boat Cover ~ 7INF12BA (CAR-7INF12BA46-7INF12BA)
Sunbrella® Fabric Color Captain Navy (05)
$329.37

I have an Avon Rover Rib 340. Got one size up to cover over the davit arms.

Had my local canvas guy cut the "slits" for about $100.


The cord covers are sunbrella. Basically 6" x 25' with zipper. Could be made by fabric shop for around the same price as the Marino products - which only come in black and dont seem to last.
 
hynespa... Do you know or can describe what was done below the swim platform deck in terms of a backer plate?
I also see you have risers.. I would think the dingy would be far enough out of the water without them...would that be the case ?
Thanks

Here's an example of what I'd recommend doing.

IMG_0602.JPG


This isnt mine. I have starboard and aluminum plates to spread the load, but mine dont tie back to the transom. I dont have any pics right now. I'll try to get some next time I'm there.
 
Here's an example of what I'd recommend doing.

View attachment 59991

This isnt mine. I have starboard and aluminum plates to spread the load, but mine dont tie back to the transom. I dont have any pics right now. I'll try to get some next time I'm there.
That's exactly what Ithought you would have to do.... It still seems like a lot of weight cantilevered off the back.. So I understand the straps as added security.
 
Good evening sports fans. Well, there is good news and bad news. To start with the good.....the service department at my marina called this morning and informed me that my boat was hauled out and put in the detail shop this morning. On the hard, under a roof, and it will likely be there through the passage of Hurricane Florence! What timing!

So I took the opportunity to go down to the marina to inspect my running gear. Anyone in the mid-Atlantic and Chesapeake Bay area knows that with the huge amounts of rain that we've had this year, the waters have been chock full of debris. It has been well documented. And we were not immune to this situation, as we bumped into things a few times. But, there were no vibrations indicating any sort of "major damage".......or so I thought! 20180911_132724.jpg
My starboard underwater exhaust outlet is missing! Ouch! I guess I did hit something pretty good. I had the Service Manager come down and give me an assessment of my propellers. There was no noticeable dings or nicks, or anything. He used a straight edge to see if the blades were all even.....and they are out just enough to warrant having them tuned.

All in all, nothing that can't be fixed. I did notice during the last trip we took in August, that the starboard engine wouldn't hit wide open throttle of 2700 rpm as has been its norm. I only hit 2650 rpm (analog gauges....). I am wondering if missing the exhaust outlet, with its torpedo shape, doesn't create a low pressure on the back side thus helping to "pull" the exhaust out of the engine and through the bottom of the boat? Seems plausible to me. Thoughts?

Jaybeaux
 
Good evening sports fans. Well, there is good news and bad news. To start with the good.....the service department at my marina called this morning and informed me that my boat was hauled out and put in the detail shop this morning. On the hard, under a roof, and it will likely be there through the passage of Hurricane Florence! What timing!

So I took the opportunity to go down to the marina to inspect my running gear. Anyone in the mid-Atlantic and Chesapeake Bay area knows that with the huge amounts of rain that we've had this year, the waters have been chock full of debris. It has been well documented. And we were not immune to this situation, as we bumped into things a few times. But, there were no vibrations indicating any sort of "major damage".......or so I thought! View attachment 59993
My starboard underwater exhaust outlet is missing! Ouch! I guess I did hit something pretty good. I had the Service Manager come down and give me an assessment of my propellers. There was no noticeable dings or nicks, or anything. He used a straight edge to see if the blades were all even.....and they are out just enough to warrant having them tuned.

All in all, nothing that can't be fixed. I did notice during the last trip we took in August, that the starboard engine wouldn't hit wide open throttle of 2700 rpm as has been its norm. I only hit 2650 rpm (analog gauges....). I am wondering if missing the exhaust outlet, with its torpedo shape, doesn't create a low pressure on the back side thus helping to "pull" the exhaust out of the engine and through the bottom of the boat? Seems plausible to me. Thoughts?

Jaybeaux

Holy crap! Sorry to (not) see that. I guess it could have been worse. Now I'm really not looking forward to pulling mine.
 
So answer my question....do you think this could be the source of my missing 50 rpm? Only getting 2650 rpm after hitting the log, instead of normal 2700?
 
So answer my question....do you think this could be the source of my missing 50 rpm? Only getting 2650 rpm after hitting the log, instead of normal 2700?
That's funny... You have a small sample size here... And your skill level is above most of us here. How many captains here could miss hitting props and shafts only to cleanly knock off the exhaust?? :)
I have problems with my tachs all the time which is why I am getting rid of them..I would fix the exhaust and see if things change.
 
Blueone...that's funny as fuck! I'm coining a new phrase....FAF! It ain't nothing that money can't fix. And I learned everything here on CSR. Thanks to all you guys!

Jaybeaux

PS...And girls.
 

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